Page 14 | Proper Cloth Help

Messy Lines Around the Front of the Shirt’s Shoulder and Bicep

Problem description

With your arms at your sides, you notice an excess of fabric and lines running diagonally over the front of the shoulder and down across the bicep.

Switch from Full Upper Sleeve Fit to a more Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit

We developed the Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit options specifically to help reduce the amount of lines and fabric at the front and back of the shoulder. While all dimensions remain the same, the Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit changes the angle and curves where the sleeve attaches to the body so that the sleeves more naturally point downwards versus straight out to the sides. Thus, this area will look cleaner and have fewer tension lines around the top of the sleeve. The only tradeoff is less range of motion at the shoulder.

The Very (or Max)Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit takes this adjustment even further, providing the cleanest look with significantly less twisting lines around the top of the sleeve when arms are at rest. The tradeoff here is also the same, with range of motion reduced slightly more.

Reduce the Sleeve Width slightly

Reducing the Sleeve Width so that it is tighter around the upper bicep will also reduce the amount of lines that show around the shoulder. Try decreasing the Sleeve Width by 0.3″ or 0.5″.

Double-check that the Yoke Width is correct

If the Yoke Width is too wide and the seams of the yoke hang past the ends of your shoulders, this can cause extra lines around the front and back of the shoulders. If the Yoke Width of the shirt is on the wider side, consider decreasing it by 0.3″ to 0.5″ to bring it up just a bit higher on the shoulder.

Ripping Through the Elbows of the Shirt

Problem description

For some reason or another, you just consistently put holes through the elbows of your shirt.

Solutions

Repeatedly ripping your elbows through your sleeves is not necessarily a sign of a poorly made shirt or a cheap fabric. A fit adjustment can reduce the tendency for this to happen, although some guys’ behavior or habits may make this problem unavoidable. We suggest considering the following adjustments:

Switch from the One-Pleat to Two-pleat, or from the Two-Pleat to the Three-Pleat Forearm to slightly widen the fit at the elbow. More on Forearm Pleats here.
Consider increasing the Sleeve Width as this will give you more room around the bicep and elbow.
Double-check that the sleeves are not too short.
Switch to a thicker shirt fabric. If you’re wearing a lightweight broadcloth, this will probably rip more easily than a heavier twill due to the nature of the construction.

Also Consider

While it’s rare, we do occasionally find guys that continue to tear through elbows of their shirts despite making the alterations suggested above. This probably means some sort of common use pattern that puts your shirt under too much stress.

Maybe you’re taking calls all day while resting on your left elbow or maybe you like to pump out a few sets of bicep curls every day in the shirt. Consider the way you’re tearing the elbow and maybe the solution is as simple as rolling up your sleeves while you’re on the phone.

Pulling Across the Upper Chest of Shirt

Problem description

With the shirt is buttoned all the way up, there is pulling going across the very top button.

Solution

The obvious solution to this problem is to widen the width of the chest and the shoulders. This will increase the amount of room across the upper chest. However, in some cases you’ll find that the shoulders are already plenty wide (with the yoke coming off the end of the shoulders) and plenty of extra fabric draping around the chest.

Look closely for any signs of Raised vs. Lowered Shoulder Slope. If the pulling lines are running from the top button up exclusively towards the top of the shoulders (and not also down to the armpits) then a more ‘Raised’ Shoulder Slope adjustment should help.

Square Shoulders — Lines indicating that a more Raised Shoulder Slope is needed.

If you are seeing signs of both Raised and Lowered shoulders (lines from the center chest to the edge of the shoulders and lines from the armpits up toward the center chest/collar) there are two potential solutions.

If the collar meets the back of your neck comfortably, a Chest Forward posture adjustment can alleviate these lines crossing the chest by providing more room to the front of the chest of the shirt. More about Chest Posture here.

If there’s a gap between the back of your neck and the collar of the shirt, however, a Neck Forward posture adjustment can alleviate the lines crossing the chest by bringing the collar into the optimal position for your build, also improving the drape of the upper chest. More about Neck Posture here.

Tightness Under the Armpits of Shirt

Problem description

In some cases you may be able to see pulling lines at the front and/or back of the shirt running from the armpits up towards the collar. In other cases the shirt may look great, but (particularly if you’re not used to having a really tailored shirt) you may just be bothered by the extra contact under the arms.

Possible solutions

There are four possible solutions you will want to consider. Use the descriptions below to determine which of these apply to your particular situation and to what degree or combination:

Making the Sleeve Width wider
Adjusting the Shoulder Slope to Lowered -0.2″, -0.6″, or -1.0″
Making the Chest Width larger
Switching to a more Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit

Making the Sleeve Width wider

Making the Sleeve Width wider is a sure-fire way to increase the size of the armhole and thus reduce tightness in the armpit. However, this can also make the sleeves baggier (which may not be desired). So, before using this solution, try to determine if the Sleeve Width is too tight in any other areas.

Does the shirt feel tight around the sleeve – or does bending the arm cause an uncomfortable tightness around the elbow? If so, you will want to increase the Sleeve Width anyways which will also help relieve tightness in the armpit.

Lowering the Shoulder Slope

Tightness in the armpits can also be caused by sloped shoulders. Look for the symptoms of sloped shoulders: primarily lines running from the bottom of the armpits up towards the back of the collar. If these are present (and depending on the degree), then change the Shoulder Slope from Standard to Lowered Shoulders -0.2″, Lowered Shoulders -0.6″, or Lowered Shoulders -1.0″.

Lowering the Shoulder Slope lowers the entire armhole (including the armpit) from the Standard setting.

Lowered Shoulders -0.2” will lower the armhole and shoulders of the shirt by 0.2″ from “Standard.”
Lowered Shoulders -0.6” will lower the armhole and shoulders of the shirt by 0.6” from “Standard.”
Lowered Shoulders -1.0” will lower the armhole and shoulders of the shirt by 1.0” from “Standard.”

Making the Chest Width larger

The Chest Width being too small can also cause the shirt to feel tight in the armpits. Try to gauge if the shirt is pulling tightly around the chest at the sides of the body or at the center button. Adjust the Chest Width larger to give more room in the chest. Generally speaking, at least 0.5″ of increase to the Chest Width is needed to make the chest feel noticeably more comfortable for the wearer.

Switching to a more Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit Fit

This is surprising to some people, but the Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit will place the armpit 1/8” lower than the Full Upper Sleeve Fit with everything else the same in the shirt size. The Very Tailored Upper Sleeve Fit will lower the armpit slightly more. Thus, if you simultaneously want to clean up the look of the sleeve at the shoulder, and reduce the feeling of tightness under the arms, then give this a try.

Extra Fabric Around the Stomach or Lower Back of Shirt

Problem description

The shirt is too loose in the middle, causing it to puff out around the waist (often called “blousing”).

Solution

Reduce the midsection width of the shirt.

If you think you need darts

Darts are a great way to resolve the issue of excess fabric around the lower back of the shirt. If you find that the midsection in your shirt size is as slim as you prefer in the front of the shirt, but there is still some excess fabric you’d like to remove from the curve in your lower back, try reducing the midsection width another 1/2″ and applying darts to your shirt size. Read more about darts here.

Better assessing the problem

Make sure you have tried the shirt on tucked into the pants you plan to wear it with.
Make sure you have tried the shirt on with/without an undershirt as you plan to wear it.

If you’re looking for a very tailored midsection that will have almost no extra fabric blousing around the waist:

Be very careful about reducing the midsection width such that: 2*midsection width < waist body measurement+3.5.
Keep in mind that a very tight midsection width with no blousing around the waist may not look good untucked.
Remember that everybody’s stomach expands when sitting down, so be sure to take that into consideration.
Depending on the shape of your waist and hips, the “default” bottom width that is calculated may end up being too tight around the hips, so consider switching it to manual and keeping it where it was before the new midsection width was used or only going a bit smaller.
Be careful about reducing the midsection width such that it is more than 4 inches less than the chest width dimension. Unless you are a bodybuilder with a significant drop between your chest and midsection width. For most guys, this extreme shape can cause awkward draping of fabric around the torso. If you’re confident the midsection needs to be smaller, consider reducing the chest width as well.

If the midsection is already pretty tight

Is the blousing of fabric around the lower waist because the shirt is not staying tucked in all the way? The extra fabric at the lower back is more in the shape of horizontal folds. If this is the case, consider:

Could the shirt be longer? Increasing the shirt back length (to enable a deeper tuck) can prevent it from riding up at the back.
Is the bottom width of the shirt tight around the hips? If the bottom width is fairly tight around the hips/butt, it can cause it to ride up as you move around. Widening the bottom width to not be too tight around the hips can reduce this tendency. Conversely, you don’t want the bottom width to be so loose around the hips that this in itself is causing the blousing.

How to Measure a Shirt: Yoke Width

Button up the shirt and spread the shirt out on its front. Measure for the point where the yoke meets the sleeve, straight across, to the same point on the other side. When taking this measurement, pull the two ends of the yoke tight but don’t stretch it.

Tolerance:
While we do our best to sew each garment precisely to its specification every time, hand sewing and different fabric types naturally result in small variations. We consider a tolerance of +0.4” to -0.4” acceptable for the Yoke Width dimension.

How to Measure a Shirt: Chest Width

Spread the shirt out on its back. Be careful to fully spread out any wrinkles or folds that might hide underneath. If the shirt has rear pleats, this will be especially important. Put one end of the measuring tape at the bottom of the armpit of the shirt and measure straight across to the bottom of the other armpit.

How to Measure a Shirt: Midsection Width

Spread the shirt out on its back such that there are no wrinkles or folds underneath. Find the narrowest part of the shirt’s body. This is probably about halfway between the armpits and the bottom of the shirt. Measure the width of the shirt at this point. This is not necessarily where the side seams are.

How to Measure a Shirt: Back Length

With the shirt spread out on its front, measure from the base of the back of the collar straight down to the center of the very bottom of the dress shirt. Do not stretch the shirt, but be sure it is lying flat and fully extended.

*Note: The number of buttons depends on the shirt length, the placement of the top button below the collar, and the neck posture setting. With the top button placement and neck posture set to standard: a 24 to 26.3 inch shirt length has 6 buttons, 26.4 to 29.9 inch shirt length has 7 buttons, 30 to 33.6 inch shirt length has 8 buttons, 33.7 to 37.1 inch shirt length has 9 buttons, and 37.2 to 38 inch shirt length has 10 buttons.

The number of buttons will be displayed in your Custom Size profile and will update instantly in response to modifications of shirt length and top button placement.

Tolerance:
While we do our best to sew each garment precisely to its specification every time, hand sewing and different fabric types naturally result in small variations. We consider a tolerance of +0.5″ to -0.5″ acceptable for the Shirt Back Length dimension.

How to Measure a Shirt: Sleeve Width

Lay the shirt on its back. Spread the shirt sleeve out flat such that the seam along the bottom of the sleeve is where the sleeve is folded. Place one end of the measuring tape on the bottom edge of the sleeve, an inch from the armpit. Measure up to the top of the sleeve such that the measuring tape is perpendicular to the top folded edge of the sleeve. Do not stretch the sleeve but be sure it is spread out flat.

Tolerance:
While we do our best to sew each garment precisely to its specification every time, hand sewing and different fabric types naturally result in small variations. We consider a tolerance of +0.3″ to -0.3″ acceptable for the Sleeve Width dimension.

How to Measure a Shirt: Cuff Around

Unbutton the shirt cuff and spread the cuff out flat. Be sure to unbutton the sleeve placket (also known as the gauntlet) button to aid in spreading out the cuff fully. Place one end of the measuring tape at the center of the button where the button stitching comes through to the inside of the cuff. Measure straight across from the center of the button to the outside edge of the button hole.

Tolerance:
While we do our best to sew each garment precisely to its specification every time, hand sewing and different fabric types naturally result in small variations. We consider a tolerance of +0.3″ to -0.3″ acceptable for the Cuff Around dimension.

VAT (Value Added Tax) – Frequently Asked Questions

What is VAT?

VAT or Value Added Tax is a consumption tax paid on goods from overseas that are shipped to customers in the European Union.

Why does Proper Cloth charge VAT?

Proper Cloth is registered in the European Union (in France) with a VAT identification number. We are required to collect and pay a flat 20% on all products shipped to addresses in the EU. Our shipping provider, FedEx requires that we report the price of goods and collect VAT upfront in order to deliver our products direct to customers, hassle-free.

How do we charge VAT?

Proper Cloth applies a 20% VAT to all orders shipped to EU addresses. The 20% VAT is included in the product prices listed on the site, converted into your preferred currency. VAT on imported goods is essentially a tax that you, the customer, must pay on the total cost for you to buy the goods and get them into the EU. Thus, VAT tax is applied to the combined value of the goods purchased and their associated shipping fee.

Other companies don’t charge VAT, why is that?

Typically, many ecommerce companies (like Proper Cloth) will specially adjust the prices that show on each product page based on the viewer’s location to include the 20% VAT. Even though you may not see VAT added on to your total price as a separate line item, you can be sure that it is built into the base price of the goods.

Occasionally, other companies will falsely write on the commercial invoice that the products being sent are “samples” or have value of $0, or a value low enough to be considered “negligible” by the customs office. In these cases you may receive the goods directly to your home without having to pay any VAT. Misrepresenting this information is of course illegal and we are unable to do this.

More Information on VAT

Here are a few more resources we found that explain VAT simply and thoroughly.

Molly – Virtual Stylist

My name is Molly- I’m the newest member of the Proper Cloth Virtual Styling Team, but I’ve spent almost a decade in total customizing my clients’ closets.

My family and I currently reside in coastal northeast Florida—a big change from the frigid Minnesota winters, where I spent my first 30 years. Living in extreme weather has made me a bit of a fabric snob, I’m afraid. There is nothing better than linen in extreme heat and flannel in extreme cold, and I love that Proper Cloth provides only the best and every natural fabrication in between.

I am an avid traveler and nature-lover, and firmly believe that there is a time and place for performance fabrics in everyone’s closet. In addition, I’ve spent a decade customizing fine jewelry pieces. If you ever want to talk about accessorizing your look with chains, tie bars, or cuff links, I’d love to discuss how it fits into your look!

Sunday is a great day to get connected with me, and I work mornings and late evenings during the week.

Stephanie – Virtual Stylist

Well, hello there!

I’m Stephanie, born and raised in good old Brooklyn, New York, now residing in Connecticut. Can’t seem to escape the East Coast!

When I’m not shopping for you, you’ll find me shopping for myself and celebrating my fun finds with some reality TV/binge-worthy shows!

I’m proud to say I am a seasoned men’s fashion stylist with over a decade of experience crafting compelling looks that elevate personal style and achieve desired aesthetics. With a keen eye for detail and an extensive knowledge of current trends and classic menswear principles, I can help you curate the look you’re going for!

I love taking a collaborative approach and a commitment to understanding every client’s unique needs. My goal is to provide innovative and practical styling solutions for any and every occasion so you can leave the house feeling your absolute best!

If you need to reach me, I’m in most weeknights until 8 PM EST and all day Friday and Saturday, 9-6 EST.

Nimit – Virtual Stylist

Greetings!

I’m Nimit, a self-proclaimed style aficionado and enthusiast. After being in menswear for 12-plus years, I’ve grown a fond appreciation of the sartorial world. There’s a beauty in understanding the psychology behind a well-curated look that makes what I do so enjoyable.

When I’m not researching the latest trends, you can most likely catch me traveling or binge watching the latest K-Drama.

My schedule is Sunday through Thursday (9 AM to 6PM EST), so please feel free to reach out to me directly if you’d like to schedule a personal styling session. And remember, always be yourself, and your confidence will shine through.

Maya – Virtual Stylist

Nice to meet you! I’m Maya, an overtly proud Brooklyn native with a love for all things Nightmare Before Christmas related.

Starting my career over 10+ years ago as a part-time sales associate, my time in the fashion industry has continued to give me the chance to work with diverse brands and evolve creatively each day. And if we’re not evolving, what are we doing, amirite? Adding in my warm personality and passion for fashion, I make the process fun, personalized, and stress-free!

Whether you’re looking to refresh your wardrobe or find the perfect outfit, I’m here to help you look and feel your best!

I am always happy to connect via phone/Zoom/email. You can reach me Tue-Sat 10 am EST – 7 pm EST!

Gem – Virtual Stylist

My name is Gem – I’m a virtual style expert at Proper Cloth, where I’ve been helping clients elevate their wardrobes since 2019!

As a native New Yorker, I grew up at the crossroads of fashion and culture which allows me to bring a keen style perspective and refined understanding of fashion + fit to every styling session. With over eight years of experience in menswear, womenswear, and jewelry styling, I’m committed to providing personalized, thoughtful style guidance rooted in product expertise and centered on your individual needs.

Whether you’re updating your wardrobe or seeking a signature look, I’m here to support your style goals! Let’s create a versatile, timeless closet that reflects your personal style together 🙂

I’m available to connect over the phone, video call, or email Monday-Friday, 9 am – 6 pm ET!

How to Measure a Shirt: Short Sleeve Opening

The short sleeve opening width is measured along the bottom edge of the sleeve opening. Start with the shirt buttoned up fully, facing up. On a firm, flat surface, spread the shirt sleeve out such that the opening of the sleeve is perfectly flat and the front and back edges are straight and aligned over each other. Run your hands across the sleeve in a spreading motion to be sure there are no wrinkles underneath. The starting point of this measurement is at the bottom corner of the sleeve opening. Place one end of the measuring tape at this point. Run the measuring tape along the edge of the sleeve opening to the top corner. Measure to the top edge of the sleeve. Round up to the nearest ¼ inch.

How to Measure a Shirt: Short Sleeve Width

How to Measure a Shirt: Short Sleeve Length

The short sleeve length is measured along the top edge of the short sleeve. Start with the shirt buttoned up fully, facing up. On a firm, flat surface, spread the shirt sleeve out such that the the sleeve is perfectly flat and the front and back edges of the opening are straight and aligned over each other. Run your hands across the sleeve in a spreading motion to be sure there are no wrinkles underneath. The starting point of this measurement is at the top corner of the sleeve, where it meets the yoke or shoulder part of the shirt. Place one end of the measuring tape at this point. Run the measuring tape along the top edge of the sleeve to the end of the sleeve. Measure to the top corner of the outer edge of the sleeve opening. Round to the nearest ¼ inch.